I didn’t realize I caused such unpleasant bowel movement. 😛
I am also woeful about the forum loss. I would love to continue this conversation or go of on another rant on the forum. XD
Sounds like you’re talking about string theory – which, I might add, comes in the proverbial 31 different flavours, and is totally unsubstantiated; the best description I’ve yet heard, is that String Theory is, essentially, math porn. 😀
Also, spatial dimentions, which string theory claims are responsable for gravity’s weakness(and doesn’t explain why it’s influence reaches so far), are not the same as universes. And don’t get me started on time. But what you seem to be betting at, might be membranes, or branes, if I’m right and you’re pulling stuff from string theory rather than sci-fi. Which is again, baseless speculation with some fancy math backing it – the fact that string theory, by and large, cannot even theoreticly be proven or disproven makes it something aproaching bad science.
Also, gravity bending light would be a result of it bending space, as light, and everything else, travels through space(in fact, gravity’s effect on light clued us in to the fact it might be bending space instead, as light is massless). Although we don’t even know what space or gravity even are – the what and the why and the how – and we understand so little.
Also, on the sci-fi track(because I can), alternate universe ≠ parallel universe. The first is the result of divergent time lines/etc.(a popular enough mechanism for dealing with paradoxes/etc. resulting from time travel, and also opens the door to fun things like quantum immortality), the second are outright separate universes and where you’ll find the classic IDIC-style multiverse – not that a parallel universe can’t be effectively identical, but that’s just part of the Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations deal it’s got going.
Meh, I just like interesting discussion. We could go to Dark Matter and Dark Energy. Especially considering Dark Energy is essentially anti-gravity and Dark matter also bends light…
A counter to your sci-fi track: I like to think of the multiverse as an onion. Each dimension is a progressively inner layer of an onion. The first-dimension being at the center and the higher level dimensions towards the outside. So if one dimension is bent it either collides with the others or bends them too. Interestingly enough, a similar idea is presented in Digimon. In season three, I think, one of the problems they were facing and had to solve was the fact that the real world and the digital one were colliding causing them to meet. This allowed for digimon to come to the real world in the first place, but it also created havoc for all other nearby planes of existance too. Eventually, if left alone they would all swirl into a spirally doom.
Also I like string theory. I just think such theories, even if they are based on sticks and artificially constructed math that works on paper but not in the universe. In fact, in way its like our beloved laws of Newton. Its flaw, however, is it doesn’t solve the problem of that it was trying to fix in the first place: reconciling quantum mechanics and relativity theory. Oh Mr. Einstein setting the limit of of the universe at light speed, what have you done. I just find it funny that he didn’t believe a lot of what he said.
The Axe is made of Unobtanium and the Executioner can use it because of Technobabblium, as Technobabblium always makes sense and Unobtainium is always better than other materials.
Multiverse = multiple universes. Dimension = spatial axis, a direction of travel. While often taken to be the same thing, they’re quite different.
In your onion example, what you have is a hypersphere(a sphere with 4 spatial dimensions), a concept that can be interpreted and used exactly eleventy billion different ways, the most common being other-space FTL drives. What alot of people don’t realise, however, is that a 3D universe is infinitely thin along any 4th spatial axis, which means [i]any[/i] measure of 4th dimensional volume can contain an infinite number of them, with associated infinite mass and energy. If you’re allowing gravity to cross, you’re going to need rather… large, dead-zones between ‘layers’. I’ll stop there for now, however, seeing as I could write a small book just examining the concept and what can be done with it in any depth.
Now, Dark Matter and Energy are called Dark because we can only indirectly infer their existence. Dark Energy is used to fill the gap between how much stuff we think must be in the universe and what we can account for, that it’s been granted responsibility the quickening expansion of the universe is speculation, and that force is very much not ‘anti-gravity’, given we’re talking about space itself expanding, not just the stuff in it being pushed apart. Dark matter, meanwhile, arose from observed galaxies not having enough observable mass to account for their structure and motion – “something with mass/gravity that we can’t see, we just know there’s alot of it.” It’s ability to bend light is entirly a result of it’s gravity, something that anything with gravity can do, and is rather not surprising given that said gravity is it’s only known property.
Now please slap yourself for comparing Newton, and something based entirly on verifiable observation, with String Theory, which can’t be confirmed or disproven experimentally, and depends entirly on math, to the point that there are many different, equally valid versions of it. :p
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63 thoughts on “03/18/2009 (62 Comments)”
Frost
*pukes about Black_Hat* “Blarrggggg!”
Its times like these we need the forum. 😛 *pouts over lost forum*
Black_Hat
I didn’t realize I caused such unpleasant bowel movement. 😛
I am also woeful about the forum loss. I would love to continue this conversation or go of on another rant on the forum. XD
Darakhoranon
To take up your discussion of the multiverse, Black_Hat:
Maybe Frost’s reaction to your post(s) is considered a sign of LOVE in an alternate reality? 😀
KHGV Defenestration
Sounds like you’re talking about string theory – which, I might add, comes in the proverbial 31 different flavours, and is totally unsubstantiated; the best description I’ve yet heard, is that String Theory is, essentially, math porn. 😀
Also, spatial dimentions, which string theory claims are responsable for gravity’s weakness(and doesn’t explain why it’s influence reaches so far), are not the same as universes. And don’t get me started on time. But what you seem to be betting at, might be membranes, or branes, if I’m right and you’re pulling stuff from string theory rather than sci-fi. Which is again, baseless speculation with some fancy math backing it – the fact that string theory, by and large, cannot even theoreticly be proven or disproven makes it something aproaching bad science.
Also, gravity bending light would be a result of it bending space, as light, and everything else, travels through space(in fact, gravity’s effect on light clued us in to the fact it might be bending space instead, as light is massless). Although we don’t even know what space or gravity even are – the what and the why and the how – and we understand so little.
KHGV Defenestration
Also, on the sci-fi track(because I can), alternate universe ≠ parallel universe. The first is the result of divergent time lines/etc.(a popular enough mechanism for dealing with paradoxes/etc. resulting from time travel, and also opens the door to fun things like quantum immortality), the second are outright separate universes and where you’ll find the classic IDIC-style multiverse – not that a parallel universe can’t be effectively identical, but that’s just part of the Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations deal it’s got going.
😀
Frost
No, thats not a sign of love. Its a sign of me being a pain in the @$$. 🙂
And……. it looks like well be hitting at alternate dimensions now.
Black_Hat
Meh, I just like interesting discussion. We could go to Dark Matter and Dark Energy. Especially considering Dark Energy is essentially anti-gravity and Dark matter also bends light…
A counter to your sci-fi track: I like to think of the multiverse as an onion. Each dimension is a progressively inner layer of an onion. The first-dimension being at the center and the higher level dimensions towards the outside. So if one dimension is bent it either collides with the others or bends them too. Interestingly enough, a similar idea is presented in Digimon. In season three, I think, one of the problems they were facing and had to solve was the fact that the real world and the digital one were colliding causing them to meet. This allowed for digimon to come to the real world in the first place, but it also created havoc for all other nearby planes of existance too. Eventually, if left alone they would all swirl into a spirally doom.
Also I like string theory. I just think such theories, even if they are based on sticks and artificially constructed math that works on paper but not in the universe. In fact, in way its like our beloved laws of Newton. Its flaw, however, is it doesn’t solve the problem of that it was trying to fix in the first place: reconciling quantum mechanics and relativity theory. Oh Mr. Einstein setting the limit of of the universe at light speed, what have you done. I just find it funny that he didn’t believe a lot of what he said.
Black_Hat
Mmmmmm, excessively long posts that have absolutely nothing to do with the comic. Quite, quite tasty…
Lycanthrope
Dear Tiff,
We are dangerous when left to run free. Please come back.
Love,
Lycanthrope.
Frost
Shhhhhhhhhh! I dun wanna be put back onna short chain
Victor Voracious
The Axe is made of Unobtanium and the Executioner can use it because of Technobabblium, as Technobabblium always makes sense and Unobtainium is always better than other materials.
KHGV Defenestration
Multiverse = multiple universes. Dimension = spatial axis, a direction of travel. While often taken to be the same thing, they’re quite different.
In your onion example, what you have is a hypersphere(a sphere with 4 spatial dimensions), a concept that can be interpreted and used exactly eleventy billion different ways, the most common being other-space FTL drives. What alot of people don’t realise, however, is that a 3D universe is infinitely thin along any 4th spatial axis, which means [i]any[/i] measure of 4th dimensional volume can contain an infinite number of them, with associated infinite mass and energy. If you’re allowing gravity to cross, you’re going to need rather… large, dead-zones between ‘layers’. I’ll stop there for now, however, seeing as I could write a small book just examining the concept and what can be done with it in any depth.
Now, Dark Matter and Energy are called Dark because we can only indirectly infer their existence. Dark Energy is used to fill the gap between how much stuff we think must be in the universe and what we can account for, that it’s been granted responsibility the quickening expansion of the universe is speculation, and that force is very much not ‘anti-gravity’, given we’re talking about space itself expanding, not just the stuff in it being pushed apart. Dark matter, meanwhile, arose from observed galaxies not having enough observable mass to account for their structure and motion – “something with mass/gravity that we can’t see, we just know there’s alot of it.” It’s ability to bend light is entirly a result of it’s gravity, something that anything with gravity can do, and is rather not surprising given that said gravity is it’s only known property.
Now please slap yourself for comparing Newton, and something based entirly on verifiable observation, with String Theory, which can’t be confirmed or disproven experimentally, and depends entirly on math, to the point that there are many different, equally valid versions of it. :p
illeatyourself
Interesting axe. Strom reminds me of the adult Fisk from Better Days.
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